Choosing a wine without a wine list

“Hello there, good evening, beunos knockers, bon nuit, guten tag, etcetera, etcetera ………. I am Maneula from Manilla, your wine waiter for this evening. Tonight ………..”

“Thanks ….. but to save you time …. I’d simply like to see a copy of …….”

"……… I would like to present to you our recommendations from the Connoisseur Wine List. Firstly we recommend Chateu-Cinq-Du- âne Trois-Gallons 2005 Chardonnay. This very fresh wine gets it’s unique amber colour from Pedro the Donkey who is fed on natural straw and is allowed to urinate freely over the vines and whose urine has been personally passed and certified organic by the “francaise societe du donc du Marseille”.

“ Thanks …… that’s very interesting but …….”

“If you’d prefer the Red, then we are recommending from the Connoisseur List this evening a rare wine from the Upper Slopes of The Andes – “Castel Pippo Veruca”. The intense red wine has an unusual flavour – emanating from the Virgins of Castel Pippo, whose verucas when pressing the wine give a distinct ……….

“Look …… just give me ……………”

“However, Mr Jeff …… in the unlikely event that you are a distasteful cheapskate, and want to deprive me of my bonus on the Wine Upgrade Stakes, and want something cheaper and nastier from the Complimentary list then tonight we are pleased to spill over you a half liter glass of Orvietto – a cheap plonk from Italy with a fancy label …………. ”

“Look I’ve had the Orvietto, it tastes like Nat’s Piss and should be ……”

“Rat’s Piss sir? Surely not ……”

“I said Nat’s Piss. It’s like Rat’s Piss but not as full bodied …….”

“Well then sir …. What wine would you like to select this evening?”

“Give me the wine list please and I’ll choose one.”

“We have so many complimentarty wines at the moment that we are currently updating the list …..”

“Then tell me what you have. I'll write them down on the tablecloth with my bread stick and we can do this together ......”

“ ........... well what wines do you like”

“I like virtually every wine except Chardonnay and any wine with a hint of Virgin’s Verucas”

“Well perhaps you could be a little more explicit ……. What wine countries do you like?”

“France, Italy, Spain, Australia, Germany, New Zealand, South Africa, Lithuania, The Free State of Outer Mongolia, America, Chile, Bulgaria …….”

“………. Well what colour do you like sir?”

“I only like Red or White or Rose. Don’t care for the others. I promise .... I can be trusted .... I chose my own wines at home ... or when I go to restaurants ....... or when I go to supermarkets .... I won't sue if I don't like it - I promise ...just give me a wine list for Pete’s sake ……………”

"I'll get the Somellier. He has better excuses than me and he speaks fluent Franglais and I promise you won't understand a word he says ......"

Jeff

ps "Piss is in the dictionary"

Ah, gee, Jeff, I shouldn't be encouraging you, but I can't help myself. Very funny. I, too, do not enjoy wine's with that ornery tang of the virgin's verucas.

Seriously, though, your parody below really does concern me. I don't want to be encouraged to order from the connoiseur's list. Part of the reason I chose Silversea was the expectation that we would be served an interesting variety of decent to good wines gratis.

I will gladly order form the c-list if we dine in Le Champagne, and will count that money well spent. But, I will expect to be offered a variety of reasonable wines, none of which I trust will be certified by the Societe Francaise d'âne de Marseille.

I understand the desire--especially among long-time Venetian Society members such as yourself--to have the opportunity to choose from the regular wine list. It does indeed sound like a serious downgrade to be deprived of that opportunity. It reduces the possibility that one might discover a wine that one has enjoyed in the past. However, if the waiter or sommelier were to offer me a choice verbally, pausing to describe each wine about which I wanted more detail, that would be acceptable to me. Mais, aucune urine d'âne, svp.

--Rich

“Hello there, good evening, beunos knockers, bon nuit, guten tag, etcetera, etcetera ………. I am Maneula from Manilla, your wine waiter for this evening. Tonight ………..”

 

“Thanks ….. but to save you time …. I’d simply like to see a copy of …….”

 

"……… I would like to present to you our recommendations from the Connoisseur Wine List. Firstly we recommend Chateu-Cinq-Du- âne Trois-Gallons 2005 Chardonnay. This very fresh wine gets it’s unique amber colour from Pedro the Donkey who is fed on natural straw and is allowed to urinate freely over the vines and whose urine has been personally passed and certified organic by the “francaise societe du donc du Marseille”.

 

“ Thanks …… that’s very interesting but …….”

 

“If you’d prefer the Red, then we are recommending from the Connoisseur List this evening a rare wine from the Upper Slopes of The Andes – “Castel Pippo Veruca”. The intense red wine has an unusual flavour – emanating from the Virgins of Castel Pippo, whose verucas when pressing the wine give a distinct ……….

 

“Look …… just give me ……………”

 

“However, Mr Jeff …… in the unlikely event that you are a distasteful cheapskate, and want to deprive me of my bonus on the Wine Upgrade Stakes, and want something cheaper and nastier from the Complimentary list then tonight we are pleased to spill over you a half liter glass of Orvietto – a cheap plonk from Italy with a fancy label …………. ”

 

“Look I’ve had the Orvietto, it tastes like Nat’s Piss and should be ……”

 

“Rat’s Piss sir? Surely not ……”

 

“I said Nat’s Piss. It’s like Rat’s Piss but not as full bodied …….”

 

“Well then sir …. What wine would you like to select this evening?”

 

“Give me the wine list please and I’ll choose one.”

 

“We have so many complimentarty wines at the moment that we are currently updating the list …..”

 

“Then tell me what you have. I'll write them down on the tablecloth with my bread stick and we can do this together ......”

 

“ ........... well what wines do you like”

 

“I like virtually every wine except Chardonnay and any wine with a hint of Virgin’s Verucas”

 

“Well perhaps you could be a little more explicit ……. What wine countries do you like?”

 

“France, Italy, Spain, Australia, Germany, New Zealand, South Africa, Lithuania, The Free State of Outer Mongolia, America, Chile, Bulgaria …….”

 

“………. Well what colour do you like sir?”

 

“I only like Red or White or Rose. Don’t care for the others. Just give me a list for Pete’s sake ……………”

 

"I'll get the Somellier. I promise you won't understand a word he says ......"

 

Jeff

 

ps "Piss is in the dictionary"

Rich,

It doesn't work.

They have between 25 and 30 (they claim) complimentary wines.

Each wine waiter can only remember 4 or 5. And even if they could remember 25 how do you do this? By memory? "Tell me what you have and I'll memorise each one you say that I think I might like ..... and each time you mention a wine after that one that I like more, I'll forget the earlier wine you mentioned before and substitute it in my memory with the one you just mentioned .... until you mention another one I like more .... then I'll forget the last one and memorise the later one ..... until ........"

I don't want the sommellier to CHOOSE my wine or to SELECT a wine, but I do not mind him answering questions about a wine that I have questions about from the list. They have a list. They must know what wines they have. They just won't give it to us.

It doesn't work that way. Believe me.

Jeff

In all our years of sailing with Silversea...we've never had a problem with getting any wine that we wanted.......(even as recently as this past April.)

We know the wines that we prefer,(from the complementary list) and always request one and receive it. If there are some questions about different wines, we always ask the"head honcho of wines" and he is usually forthcoming about them. Unfortunately, some of the "regular wines"now been sent to the (more$$$) list, but that is our choice to accept or reject it.

Rich,

 

It doesn't work.

 

. . . Believe me.

 

Jeff

Jeff, your latest post convinced me. I do believe you. I now think it is a serious lapse in quality to not provide a list of available wines.

My own experience is that I write down the names of wines I enjoy, then rarely review my list, and as a result, can only remember a very few. I subscribed to Wine Spectator for a year, but found that I just didn't have the patience and/or oenophile qualifications to benefit from it.

I have a much better chance of RECOGNIZING the name of a wine I have tasted and enjoyed, than I do of RECALLING it. The absence of a list will deprive me of the opportunity. I guess I'll just have to trust the judgment of the on-board representative of the Societe Francaise d'urine d'ane. Comment dites on "Ripple" en Francais? Est-ce-que Ree-pull?

--Rich (on dit "Reesh")

silver pearl,

please do not be concerned about the quality of wine you will be served in the restaurant. first of all silversea offers complimentary wine. nowhere does it promise a list you can peruse such as you will receive in a land based restaurant where prices are listed alongside the options. in the past such lists were provided when asked for but for whatever reason they seem not to be doing that any longer. having said that, in all my voyages on silversea i have never had to order off the premium list except in le champagne and i have always enjoyed the selections. usually they will choose a particular red and white for each meal (sometimes even in coordination with that evenings meals). if you find something you like remember it and it will usually be available throughout your cruise. if your waiter is not completely familiar with the available wines ask to speak to the sommelier or maitre d'. they will do everything they can to make you happy. of course, if you happen to be a true wine connoisseur who only drinks vintage bordeaux or burgundies or garage wines from napa valley then you may have to dig into your pockets and check out the premium list. for the rest of us, the complimentary wines are more than satisfactory. in short, stop worrying and enjoy the anticipation of your 25th anniversary celebration. i too celebrated my 25th aboard the cloud and had a great time.

Hi All, and here was I thinking that all you Americans hated the French.

With so many French words in the last few posts, it brings a tear to my eye !!

Now where's Jean Claude with my wine List ;)

John

Takes alot to me put me off, ask me again on August 13th!

Hi all :) glad to see you are behaving yourselves

AJ

I've got a practical solution:

"Sir and madame, would you prefer the house white or the house red?"

No need to waste time listening to a sommelier or agonizing over a wine list. :-)

I've got a practical solution:

 

"Sir and madame, would you prefer the house white or the house red?"

 

No need to waste time listening to a sommelier or agonizing over a wine list. :-)

That is exactly what they are doing preceded by an extended and elaborate upgrade offer.

Jeff

Hi Jeff, If we all remember two wines from our cruise, and compare notes,then in about six months we should be able to compile a wine list for future cruisers

John

Hi Jeff, If we all remember two wines from our cruise, and compare notes,then in about six months we should be able to compile a wine list for future cruisers

 

John

Good suggestion!

Seriously though, in order to accomplish this - we'd have to break through the initial barrier of not having the list to choose from in the first place and trying to find a way of not choosing the only other two each waiter seems to know, Orvietto seeming always to be the Chardonnay alternative on Shadow at the moment - and I bet thay have a hangar full. There's only one sommellier per ship and he hovers around the Champagne for much of the time when it's open. So your wine could be some time if you don't take what you're given.

When we got to the end of my exchange (which wasn't far off what I wrote) the wine waiter said - "I'll go and get the sommellier". Instead 10 minutes later he came back with an open bottle of wine which I had had no part in selecting and said "this is what he chose (without talking to me) try this"! It isn't good enough.

Not having a list is not a problem for those that like to have their wine suggested - and many people do. Others, as it happens like to use the SS experience to try wines from the list that they mightn't otherwise try. If after all, you don't like it - you don't have to finish it. Part of the SS experience was selecting interesting wines that are clearly within the SS budget and are therefore cleverly selected for you to try. Not having the list makes that process as near to impossible as it can be, and to some (I repeat not all) is important.

It is obviously (the change to menus is further evidence) all about increasing Connisseur wine list sales and diverting peoples' complimentary consumption to cheaper bottles purchased in greater quantities and diverting people away from selecting what might cost them more from the list. Over time it all adds up.

Jeff

ps Orvietto is available for around £3 per bottle in the uk - which after tax leaves around £1.50 per bottle at retail (not wholesale) price. SS buy tax free and in quantity and I reckon they pay around £1 per bottle.

Hi jeff,do they always arrive at the table with the wine already open? not a good sign.

I do wonder if the wine waiter/sommellier is on a bonus/percentage as on other ships,but SS do tell us that they pay their staff more, so no gratuities are due.I think that in the world of competition, SS are run by accountants just like the majority of companies,so the tightening of belts is the norm.

On a plus note,competition does lead to some very attractive discounts,the down side is that the quality slips.

So stop taking the BVLGARI soap home !! :rolleyes:

John

The bottles of wine are opened and in buckets before the restaurant doors open. As I understand it (two sources but officially unconfirmed) SS staff have recently taken a pay cut.

We're done the debate before, but I personally prefer higher prices and higher levels of performance and lower occupancy but I know that I am in a minority.

Jeff, your opening remarks are hilarious. I enjoy that "Monty Python" sense of humour. It reminded me of their skit about Australian wines.

My favourite wine is Pouilly Fuisse by Jadot. It was a complimentary. I returned two bottles. The sommelier and two others tasted it and grimaced.

The same thing happened on the next night. So I gave up and drank house wine !! By the way, the wine produced in the Cinque Terre area is excellent.

By the way, the wine produced in the Cinque Terre area is excellent.

.............. so's the Grappa!

Jeff

The bottles of wine are opened and in buckets before the restaurant doors open. As I understand it (two sources but officially unconfirmed) SS staff have recently taken a pay cut.

 

We're done the debate before, but I personally prefer higher prices and higher levels of performance and lower occupancy but I know that I am in a minority.

Hi Jeff, I agree and am also in the minority

John

Regarding the pay cut. Could it be the fact that they are paid in dollars, therefore considered a pay cut?

Having just booked a Silver Sea cruise for the first time next April, this entire discussion makes me wonder if I've done the right thing. I DO NOT want someone else selecting my wine, and do prefer to see a list. If not possible, then it isn't, so I just may re-think the cruise beofre the payment date is due.

Ron

cruiseforever,

when you booked your cruise were you under the impression that you would be handed a wine list at every meal for you to select your complimetary wine? if you, you were misinformed. SS has never done this. the policy has always been for them to select one red and one white for each meal but if you did not like those you could choose from anything else on their complimentary list. in the past the list was made available for perusal, but apparently this is no longer the case. on my last cruise on the whisper around a year ago the list was still available. i cant imagine that if you inquire they will not tell you what other options there are.

All one has to do is state whether red or white or rose, then pick a country. Then make a selection. That is if one is dissatisfied with the daily selection.

Champagne is always available ! I once found a great Australian wine.

(The bouquet DID NOT resemble the underarm of an aborigine !!!)

Wine connoisseurs know that Australian reds are among the best in the world, particularly the great Shiraz (syrah) like Penfolds Grange or Elderton Command.

The are new style reds so, like much of the California reds and unlike French wines, are quite assertive and full-flavored.

In my experience, none of the cruiselines that include wine with dinner offer a wine list. You may ask for a different selection than what is offered that evening, as other posters have mentioned. When we find a wine we really like (and we wine country people can be terribly fussy) we often request it at other meals. (As an aside, the Captain on Seabourn Pride always serves Matanzas Creek, a winery just five miles from our home. Good taste, that!)

winner,

exactly! i think some people may have been under the impression that when a line offers complimentary wine they will be offered a list at the table as if they were in a land based restaurant. its just doesnt work that way. but i have never not recceived a different bottle when ive requested it.

winner,

 

exactly! i think some people may have been under the impression that when a line offers complimentary wine they will be offered a list at the table as if they were in a land based restaurant. its just doesnt work that way. but i have never not recceived a different bottle when ive requested it.

exactly!!!! ..and the reason is: the "winecellar" is constructed in anticpation of puring 2 wines per evening. they don't have the space and fridges to store numbers of wines of all their complimentary choices in addition to the selling wines. Furthermore the sommelier often buys local wines in the visited areas, so there are quite a few leftovers around and noone has the time and capacity to update almost daily the changes on a nicely printed winelist (one you would like to receive and not a computer-print-out)